Comments on: The challenge of finding a nontoxic recreational vehicle http://www.thecanaryreport.org/2009/07/19/the-challenge-of-finding-a-nontoxic-recreational-vehicle/ A blog and social network about Multiple Chemical Sensitivity Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:51:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Beth Flaherty http://www.thecanaryreport.org/2009/07/19/the-challenge-of-finding-a-nontoxic-recreational-vehicle/comment-page-1/#comment-11116 Beth Flaherty Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:20:33 +0000 http://www.thecanaryreport.org/?p=6582#comment-11116 Hi Kieth, I to have been looking for a safe trailer and came across some with dryer sheets in all the compartments. I knew they must had thought it was for fresh air (farthest thing from it)but I'd never heard it chased off mice "Intresting"... ARE MICE SMARTER THAN MOST HUMANS ??? I wish you two the best of luck, it's one of the hardest things I've done if one even exists!!! Beth Hi Kieth,

I to have been looking for a safe trailer and came across some with dryer sheets in all the compartments. I knew they must had thought it was for fresh air (farthest thing from it)but I’d never heard it chased off mice “Intresting”… ARE MICE SMARTER THAN MOST HUMANS ???

I wish you two the best of luck, it’s one of the hardest things I’ve done if one even exists!!!

Beth

]]> By: Susie Collins http://www.thecanaryreport.org/2009/07/19/the-challenge-of-finding-a-nontoxic-recreational-vehicle/comment-page-1/#comment-5010 Susie Collins Tue, 21 Jul 2009 01:04:20 +0000 http://www.thecanaryreport.org/?p=6582#comment-5010 A reader sent me this link to share with you. It's the story of her adventures using grease to power a van and then truck to pull her safe travel trailer. She has MCS and they retrofitted a travel trailer to make it safe for her. http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-10/2006-10-26-voa73.cfm A reader sent me this link to share with you. It’s the story of her adventures using grease to power a van and then truck to pull her safe travel trailer. She has MCS and they retrofitted a travel trailer to make it safe for her.

http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-10/2006-10-26-voa73.cfm

]]> By: Susie Collins http://www.thecanaryreport.org/2009/07/19/the-challenge-of-finding-a-nontoxic-recreational-vehicle/comment-page-1/#comment-4986 Susie Collins Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:19:13 +0000 http://www.thecanaryreport.org/?p=6582#comment-4986 Mike, thanks for all that info! I do appreciate hearing about the tech side of issues. I appreciate your attention to those details and you taking the time to share them with us. Denise, Isn't is amazing how every single product that we MCSers find toxicis indeed toxic? Study after study just keeps backing us up. We are an undervalued group in our toxic modern society. Tragic. Mike, thanks for all that info! I do appreciate hearing about the tech side of issues. I appreciate your attention to those details and you taking the time to share them with us.

Denise, Isn’t is amazing how every single product that we MCSers find toxicis indeed toxic? Study after study just keeps backing us up. We are an undervalued group in our toxic modern society. Tragic.

]]> By: Denise in Honolulu http://www.thecanaryreport.org/2009/07/19/the-challenge-of-finding-a-nontoxic-recreational-vehicle/comment-page-1/#comment-4977 Denise in Honolulu Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:54:19 +0000 http://www.thecanaryreport.org/?p=6582#comment-4977 Almost four decades ago, I was taught in school that diesel fumes were safer than regular gasoline fumes and my experience of standing next to diesel exhaust (buses) and feeling ill was anectdotal, not scientifically based, as the particles were bigger and safer!!! They are NOW teaching that diesel is more dangerous, DUH!!! Canaries have known this all along. Almost four decades ago, I was taught in school that diesel fumes were safer than regular gasoline fumes and my experience of standing next to diesel exhaust (buses) and feeling ill was anectdotal, not scientifically based, as the particles were bigger and safer!!!
They are NOW teaching that diesel is more dangerous, DUH!!! Canaries have known this all along.

]]> By: mike badolato http://www.thecanaryreport.org/2009/07/19/the-challenge-of-finding-a-nontoxic-recreational-vehicle/comment-page-1/#comment-4951 mike badolato Mon, 20 Jul 2009 00:41:35 +0000 http://www.thecanaryreport.org/?p=6582#comment-4951 concerning looking for an RV and pulling with a diesel...EPA researchers (published Veronesi et al in prof journal) found that .22 micron diesel exhaust particles go into the brain and act on the dopaminergic neurons in such way as to cause Parkinson's symptoms...if you have MCS you sure don't want to drive a diesel...living in a vehicle is difficult - the airspace is small so all the more you have to be careful...one hazard I was surprised to learn is that fuel hoses on cars and trucks - and even on the pump at the gas station are designed with materials such that gasoline vapor goes THROUGH the hose walls. Approx .7 to 1.2 billion gallons of fuel permeate through the hoses each year in the US. This is because the standard SAE R6 or R7 fuel hose allows 550 grams square meter per day permeation through the walls using a nitrile inner lining. Only the small hose sizes (5/16 and less) are now available with fluoroelastomer lining and are rated SAE R9 with less than 15 grams sq m day of permeation...I could go on with more detail on this but could bore someone! I had a major project on a Suburban trying to correct the vapor leakage including foil wrapping the larger size fill hose and inserting a 3/8 vent line (15 gram rated) in place of most of the 5/8 (550 gram rated) vent line. Unfortunately the smaller vent line doesn't let air displace quickly enough so I have to manually hold the nozzle filling the tank at a slower rate. Gaskets and o-rings are usually similarly permeable - for example the fuel pump is installed in the gas tank - the 0-ring leaks vapor like a sieve and so does the gas cap gasket - again apparently the permeable nitrile rubber - baffled I got a handheld combustible gas detector which has shown the leakage. Vapor is also very prone to leaking out under the clamped ends. If a hose is disconnected and reconnected without replacing there is a high possibility it will leak vapor out from under the clamps. You have to be careful or a vehicle can be a gas chamber. Mike concerning looking for an RV and pulling with a diesel…EPA researchers (published Veronesi et al in prof journal) found that .22 micron diesel exhaust particles go into the brain and act on the dopaminergic neurons in such way as to cause Parkinson’s symptoms…if you have MCS you sure don’t want to drive a diesel…living in a vehicle is difficult – the airspace is small so all the more you have to be careful…one hazard I was surprised to learn is that fuel hoses on cars and trucks – and even on the pump at the gas station are designed with materials such that gasoline vapor goes THROUGH the hose walls. Approx .7 to 1.2 billion gallons of fuel permeate through the hoses each year in the US. This is because the standard SAE R6 or R7 fuel hose allows 550 grams square meter per day permeation through the walls using a nitrile inner lining. Only the small hose sizes (5/16 and less) are now available with fluoroelastomer lining and are rated SAE R9 with less than 15 grams sq m day of permeation…I could go on with more detail on this but could bore someone! I had a major project on a Suburban trying to correct the vapor leakage including foil wrapping the larger size fill hose and inserting a 3/8 vent line (15 gram rated) in place of most of the 5/8 (550 gram rated) vent line. Unfortunately the smaller vent line doesn’t let air displace quickly enough so I have to manually hold the nozzle filling the tank at a slower rate. Gaskets and o-rings are usually similarly permeable – for example the fuel pump is installed in the gas tank – the 0-ring leaks vapor like a sieve and so does the gas cap gasket – again apparently the permeable nitrile rubber – baffled I got a handheld combustible gas detector which has shown the leakage. Vapor is also very prone to leaking out under the clamped ends. If a hose is disconnected and reconnected without replacing there is a high possibility it will leak vapor out from under the clamps. You have to be careful or a vehicle can be a gas chamber. Mike

]]> By: Sandy http://www.thecanaryreport.org/2009/07/19/the-challenge-of-finding-a-nontoxic-recreational-vehicle/comment-page-1/#comment-4936 Sandy Sun, 19 Jul 2009 22:21:10 +0000 http://www.thecanaryreport.org/?p=6582#comment-4936 Diesel fumes are ghastly! Anyway, I can feel your pain as shopping for anything is so difficult for us. I have had my trials trying to find a car I can drive. In the meantime I am driving my husbands pickup. It seems ironic. I am driving a gas guzzler and contributing to the problem that is making me sick. What can I do? Diesel fumes are ghastly!

Anyway, I can feel your pain as shopping for anything is so difficult for us. I have had my trials trying to find a car I can drive. In the meantime I am driving my husbands pickup. It seems ironic. I am driving a gas guzzler and contributing to the problem that is making me sick. What can I do?

]]> By: Mokihana http://www.thecanaryreport.org/2009/07/19/the-challenge-of-finding-a-nontoxic-recreational-vehicle/comment-page-1/#comment-4934 Mokihana Sun, 19 Jul 2009 22:15:30 +0000 http://www.thecanaryreport.org/?p=6582#comment-4934 Hi Keith, Your search is a challenging one. My husband and I began that search more than two years ago and discovered the concentrated reality of a damagingly dangerous R.V. world. Retrofitting the Airstream was my first thought ... actually my thought was to go to the Airstream factory and TRY to get them to sell me the shell. That is a no-go. When I learned how R.V.s are manufactured and saw the use of foam insulation and formald/based materials we had to re-assemble our approach. Tad Taylor and his legacy is a great form of seeing that to re-make a more sensible and safe environment we must invoke SLOWNESS. Undoing junk will take consciousness and diligent choices. And the diesel issue is a tough one that Susie and Linda cover pretty well. We thought about the diesel too, but in the process of building our Vardo, diesel fumes made me very sick. We found that 'spending more' time and money were part of the journey. Recreating a dream based on an old form of the dream is risky business. Good luck with your search and if you have any questions about wheelie ways send us a query. Hi Keith,

Your search is a challenging one. My husband and I began that search more than two years ago and discovered the concentrated reality of a damagingly dangerous R.V. world. Retrofitting the Airstream was my first thought … actually my thought was to go to the Airstream factory and TRY to get them to sell me the shell. That is a no-go. When I learned how R.V.s are manufactured and saw the use of foam insulation and formald/based materials we had to re-assemble our approach. Tad Taylor and his legacy is a great form of seeing that to re-make a more sensible and safe environment we must invoke SLOWNESS. Undoing junk will take consciousness and diligent choices.

And the diesel issue is a tough one that Susie and Linda cover pretty well. We thought about the diesel too, but in the process of building our Vardo, diesel fumes made me very sick. We found that ’spending more’ time and money were part of the journey. Recreating a dream based on an old form of the dream is risky business. Good luck with your search and if you have any questions about wheelie ways send us a query.

]]> By: Susie Collins http://www.thecanaryreport.org/2009/07/19/the-challenge-of-finding-a-nontoxic-recreational-vehicle/comment-page-1/#comment-4931 Susie Collins Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:35:43 +0000 http://www.thecanaryreport.org/?p=6582#comment-4931 Linda, you are absolutely right! Excellent point. I cannot be around diesel fumes! Here's a post on diesel http://www.thecanaryreport.org/index.php?s=deisel Linda, you are absolutely right! Excellent point. I cannot be around diesel fumes! Here’s a post on diesel http://www.thecanaryreport.org/index.php?s=deisel

]]> By: linda http://www.thecanaryreport.org/2009/07/19/the-challenge-of-finding-a-nontoxic-recreational-vehicle/comment-page-1/#comment-4928 linda Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:54:52 +0000 http://www.thecanaryreport.org/?p=6582#comment-4928 Just don't sell the house until you find the safe enough RV! Keith, alarm bells went off when you mentioned "diesel" pick-up truck. Diesel fumes and particulates are particularily nasty for us. If there is any way they can get into the RV, they could contaminate your new home. Just don’t sell the house until you find the safe enough RV!

Keith, alarm bells went off when you mentioned “diesel” pick-up truck. Diesel fumes and particulates are particularily nasty for us. If there is any way they can get into the RV, they could contaminate your new home.

]]> By: Susie Collins http://www.thecanaryreport.org/2009/07/19/the-challenge-of-finding-a-nontoxic-recreational-vehicle/comment-page-1/#comment-4920 Susie Collins Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:19:16 +0000 http://www.thecanaryreport.org/?p=6582#comment-4920 Keith, thanks for the plug in this post! Every time I read something about people using Bounce dryer sheets as a pesticide or rodenticide, I am flabbergasted. Do they not wonder WHY the creatures are repelled? Do they think the creatures just don't like the lovely fresh scent? I mean, get a clue people! It's TOXIC, that's why the creatures are repelled. D'oh. All best to you, Keith and Mary, in finding or creating your safe RV quickly and with as little hassle as possible. Keith, thanks for the plug in this post!

Every time I read something about people using Bounce dryer sheets as a pesticide or rodenticide, I am flabbergasted. Do they not wonder WHY the creatures are repelled? Do they think the creatures just don’t like the lovely fresh scent? I mean, get a clue people! It’s TOXIC, that’s why the creatures are repelled. D’oh.

All best to you, Keith and Mary, in finding or creating your safe RV quickly and with as little hassle as possible.

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